Talk:Said Nursi

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 23, 2018.

On 7 December 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Said Nursî to Said Nursi. The result of the discussion was moved.

Theosophy?

I see that my edit has been reverted so that this article perpetuates the false notion that Said Nursi has some association with the so-called theosophy of Helena Blavatsky. There is absolutely no evidence for this. The English word "theosophy" has been used by scholars to translate the Arabic word "hikmah" or "hikmat," as in the transcendent theosophy (al-hikmat al-muta'āliyah) of Mulla Sadra. The Akbariyya school that began with Ibn 'Arabi has also been called theosophical Sufism but, again, this has nothing to do with the late 19th century occultist movement started by Blavatsky.

I am going to fix this false association again, because I have seen no evidence for it. If someone can demonstrate the influence of Blavatskian theosophy on Nursi, fine, but I think this is either a simple misunderstanding or an ill-intended effort to tarnish his reputation. Spelare108 (talk) 00:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That would be Onel5969's fault. They've since declared they won't engage in such edits.

@Spelare108: although we don't go with editor interpretation or knowledge but with cited sources, you do appear more familiar with this topic than me. Would Transcendent theosophy be a better link? Ian.thomson (talk) 06:44, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian.thomson:

No, because Transcendent theosophy refers specifically to the school of Mulla Sadra, and I'm not sure Said Nursi knew of him. The appropriate reference would be to theosophical (aka philosophical) Sufism, exemplified by the Akbariyya school that followed Ibn Arabi and the Illuminationist (ishraqi) school of Suhrawardi. Said Nursi definitely read and was influenced by these authors, giving him some affinity with Mulla Sadra's transcendent theosophy without direct contact. Spelare108 (talk) 01:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My advice would be to remove ALL references to theosophy. It’s just an error that has crept in apparently because of a translation error. Best regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 05:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Train Wreck

Parts of this article are written from a biased opinion, and on the whole it appears to be a bit of a train wreck. I can't make heads or tails of half of the information in the "Teachings and Movement" section. Can anyone help whoever wrote this out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.114.76.181 (talk • contribs) 11:41, 6 May 2021 (UTC)^<diff>[reply]

Horrible

Parts of the article were clearly written by an adherent of Nursi - the content is uncritically and (and quite poorly) translated from his works in Turkish. As it stands now, the article only serves to be a (rather poorly translated) missionary text advertising Nursi's more palatable religious beliefs. The article needs to be written from scratch. Boundary.operator (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even the naming of the sections in this article ("Old/New Nursî") derives from Nursî's own recount of his life, which is a phenomenon I've never seen before on Wikipedia. Boundary.operator (talk) 22:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article was edited extensively by a now blocked user (Hakikacto). This was the version before their edits[1]. If this version is better (I don't know much about this topic), we can change it back. Semsûrî (talk) 22:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. WP:NCENG means that English-language sources should be prioritized in determining article titles, and the opponents of this move have not countered the nominator's arguments, instead looking at non-English sources. (closed by non-admin page mover) JJP_{Mas_ter} (she/they) 02:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Said Nursî → Said Nursi – He is regularly called "Said Nursi" (no diacritic) by English-language sources:

https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315566917
https://books.google.be/books?id=CS9wRCTSaTIC
https://books.google.be/books?id=fdX-iggjrxwC
https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315254067
https://doi.org/10.4324/9780429019364 ―Howard • 🌽³³ 23:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination. At the bottom of Nursi's article, there are 66 inline cites, four entries under section header "Sources", ten entries under "Further reading" and twelve entries under "External links", with virtually all of those indeed depicting his name without the diacritic. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You found sources in English. His name is without diacritics.

What say sources in Turkish language. Nursî wrote texts in Turkish.

I searched about images of cover of "Risale-i Nur Külliyatı". The name of the writer is wrote "Nursî" and not "Nursi".

If we change the orthography of his family name for the Wikipedia entry about him.

Have we to modify titles for the next three articles by alphabetical order of family name ? (Examples among others)

1.Oğuz Atay (1934-1977) , Turkish writer , his first name have a "ğ".

2.Lída Baarová (1914-2000) , Czechoslovak then Czech actresses , her first name have a "í" and her last name have a "á".

3.Louis de Funès (1914-1983) , French actor , his last name have a "è". Anatole-berthe (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are not changing spelling rules for every person on Wikipedia here. We are simple following the vast majority of English-language sources for a particular person, per WP:COMMONNAME. Those other people will require separate discussions if and only if English-language sources spell their names differently than the native name. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 10:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral per nomination. ~~In Turkish we don't use diacritic.~~

7 December 2024 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unforgvn20 (talk • contribs) 03:32, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is your source to affirm than in Turkish language we don't use diacritics for his family name ? Anatole-berthe (talk) 04:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correction , î diacritic is rarely used, and I do see it's used in Turkish Risale-i Nur publications when spelling "Nursî " , changing my vote to neutral. Unforgvn20 (talk) 05:42, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:Diacritic and sources provided, reference, citations, etc that are in English. Seems like the diacritic is commonly dropped in English sources. TiggerJay (talk) 02:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.